"Imants Vilks
Pēdējo reizi manīts 2012-08-23 22:23
Lietotāja statuss: Lietotājs
Atrašanās vieta: ventspils
Medību stāžs: kopš 1997 gada
Aprīkojums: BROWNING BAR BOSS 30-06, TOZ-34 (12k), IZ-58 (16k), MC 21-12, IZ-18 (32k)
Suņi: drathārs (K.)
Šodien, 21:38
Es pis, kurā kolektīvā tur šitādu..... šitādu.....es pat nezinu kā nosaukt. Nu latvietis.... njā, divas izvešanas, labākie genofondi genoht, paliek pāri tas kas paliek pāri."
...klau,Imant,priekš dzimumdzīves takš ir(un vēlams) savas sugas partneres.:) a kā to šepti var darīt ar datoru?,:)
Agri,drusku mani satrūcināji,paskatījos pats vilkipēdijā,4150 bāri = 415 MPA= 60200Psi,varbūt ne to kalibru paskatījies.Vispār Tavs kompis izmetis gļuku uz cipariem,ja runa par spiedienu.
Dzintar, nu un cik tad ir max pieļaujamais .308?! Un cik ir max pieļaujamais 7,62 x 51?!
Un tad pasaki, vai Barnaul ražotās 7,62 x 51 ir liekamas ārzemju .308?
Tātad .308win spiediens ir pieļaujams lielāks par 7,62x51! Tātad mazāka spiediena munīciju nedrīkst bāzt ierocī, kas ir paredzēts lielāka spiediena munīcijai?!?!?! un kurš te ir nekompetents?!?!?! :D
Nez kur palika "Latvijas dižākais ieroču eksperts", lai ieviestu visos kompetenci????!?!?!
Pie tam, par savu "kompetenci" saņem algu no mūsu maksātajiem nodokļiem!!!!
Wilkipēdijā kļūda tur pat nav pareizi konvertēts spiediens no Psi uz Mpa.Un netaisos ar pļāpām diskutēt,jā es saņemu algu par savu pieredzi un zināšanām un arī amata prasmēm.Paņem lādēšanas kalkulatoru Quickload un virtuāli uzmodelē 308 win.patronu sākot no 165 greinu lodes,redzēsi ka vairāk kā 75% no maksimuma spiedienu neiesaka celt un arī čaulītes tilpums neļaus.Ja izmantos ātrāk degošu pulveri ar nepilnīgi aizpildītu čaulīti var uzrauties uz pārāk strauju sadekšanu(detonāciju).Tur jau ir tas knifs ka armijas ieroči ir paredzēti daudzkār lielākam spiedienam nekā spēj turēt medību.Tapēc vajag kaut ko zināt un informāciju nesmelties no žurnāla Ilustrētā Zinātne,lai pēc tam lietu ūdeni kā pamatskolas eksāmenā!
Paga, paga, paga!
Atkal, izņemot to, ka esmu muļķis un neko nezinu - nedzirdēju!
Jūsu teksts:
apsolūti droši varu teikt ka militārā munīcija nav pielietojama medību ieročos.Izšaut jau var,bet var beigties ar ieroča bojājumu,vai pat saplīšanu.
un vēl:
Tur jau ir tas knifs ka armijas ieroči ir paredzēti daudzkār lielākam spiedienam nekā spēj turēt medību.
Tomēr pēc SAAMI teiktā - .308win ir patrona ar lielāku spiedienu!
Nu tad kurš īsti kļūdās???? un kurš ir izturīgāks ierocis?!?! :)
Pie tam, joprojām gaidu izsmeļošu manas "nekompetences" analīzi!
Un vēl, redz ko Sellier & Bellot raksta:
Dear Sir.
Thank you that you shoot with our cartridges and we are pleased that you are
satisfied with them.
Czech Republic is member of the international organisation for
standardisation of cartridges, shotshells and their chambers - C.I.P. Czech
Republic is also member of NATO. So we have drawings of C.I.P. of the
cartridge 308 Winchester and we have also drawings NATO of the cartridge
7,62 x 51. I can you assure that the dimensions of 308 Winchester and 7,62 x
51 are the same.
Very important quantity of cartridges is the maximum pressure developed in
the chamber by shot. In this case I must say, that the value of C.I.P.for
the cartridge 308 W is higher as the value NATO for the cartridge 7,62 x 51
and probably this reality let to incorrect conclusion that the cartridge 308
W is more powerfull, as the cartridge 7,62 x 51. The difference of both
values of pressures is caused from different methodes of pressure measuring,
In real are the maximum pressuers the same.
According to C.I.P. is the pressure measured in the case before the bullet
leaves the case mouth. According NATO is the presure measured on the mouth
of the case, when the bullet left the case mouth. It is evident that this
pressure is lower.
The maximum pressure C.I.P. is for the cartridge 308 Winchester 415
megapascal (4150 bar) measured in the chamber, the maximum pressure NATO for
the cartridge 7,62 x 51 is 380 megapascal (3800bar) measured on the mouth of
the case. But the cartridge 7,62 x 51 has the same pressure in the chamber
415 megapascal.
So to your questions:
1. Our 7,62 x 51 Sniper Ammo is in construction (structure) the same as our
cartridge 308 Winchester Match Ammo. They are only different technical
conditions (military and comercially). Sniper cartridges is for us
impossible sell commercially.
2. The performance of cartridges 308 Winchester and 7,62 x 51 is depending
only on the load. The performance is in both cases limited only with the
maximum pressure, which is in both cases practically the same, the values
are only measured with different methodes.
3. Cases of both cartridges 308 W and 7,62 x 51 are the same. Differ only
the headstamps.
The cone of the shoulder is in both cases the same - 40°.
So you can shoot our cartridges 308 W Match Ammo from the military sniper
rifle in the calibre 7,62 x 51.
I wish you with our cartridges the best shooting results.
Sincerely your
Hykel from Sellier&bellot
Pēdējo reizi manīts 2012-08-23 22:23
Lietotāja statuss: Lietotājs
Atrašanās vieta: ventspils
Medību stāžs: kopš 1997 gada
Aprīkojums: BROWNING BAR BOSS 30-06, TOZ-34 (12k), IZ-58 (16k), MC 21-12, IZ-18 (32k)
Suņi: drathārs (K.)
Šodien, 21:38
Es pis, kurā kolektīvā tur šitādu..... šitādu.....es pat nezinu kā nosaukt. Nu latvietis.... njā, divas izvešanas, labākie genofondi genoht, paliek pāri tas kas paliek pāri."
...klau,Imant,priekš dzimumdzīves takš ir(un vēlams) savas sugas partneres.:) a kā to šepti var darīt ar datoru?,:)
Un tad pasaki, vai Barnaul ražotās 7,62 x 51 ir liekamas ārzemju .308?
Pie tam, par savu "kompetenci" saņem algu no mūsu maksātajiem nodokļiem!!!!
Atkal, izņemot to, ka esmu muļķis un neko nezinu - nedzirdēju!
Jūsu teksts:
apsolūti droši varu teikt ka militārā munīcija nav pielietojama medību ieročos.Izšaut jau var,bet var beigties ar ieroča bojājumu,vai pat saplīšanu.
un vēl:
Tur jau ir tas knifs ka armijas ieroči ir paredzēti daudzkār lielākam spiedienam nekā spēj turēt medību.
Tomēr pēc SAAMI teiktā - .308win ir patrona ar lielāku spiedienu!
Nu tad kurš īsti kļūdās???? un kurš ir izturīgāks ierocis?!?! :)
Pie tam, joprojām gaidu izsmeļošu manas "nekompetences" analīzi!
Dear Sir.
Thank you that you shoot with our cartridges and we are pleased that you are
satisfied with them.
Czech Republic is member of the international organisation for
standardisation of cartridges, shotshells and their chambers - C.I.P. Czech
Republic is also member of NATO. So we have drawings of C.I.P. of the
cartridge 308 Winchester and we have also drawings NATO of the cartridge
7,62 x 51. I can you assure that the dimensions of 308 Winchester and 7,62 x
51 are the same.
Very important quantity of cartridges is the maximum pressure developed in
the chamber by shot. In this case I must say, that the value of C.I.P.for
the cartridge 308 W is higher as the value NATO for the cartridge 7,62 x 51
and probably this reality let to incorrect conclusion that the cartridge 308
W is more powerfull, as the cartridge 7,62 x 51. The difference of both
values of pressures is caused from different methodes of pressure measuring,
In real are the maximum pressuers the same.
According to C.I.P. is the pressure measured in the case before the bullet
leaves the case mouth. According NATO is the presure measured on the mouth
of the case, when the bullet left the case mouth. It is evident that this
pressure is lower.
The maximum pressure C.I.P. is for the cartridge 308 Winchester 415
megapascal (4150 bar) measured in the chamber, the maximum pressure NATO for
the cartridge 7,62 x 51 is 380 megapascal (3800bar) measured on the mouth of
the case. But the cartridge 7,62 x 51 has the same pressure in the chamber
415 megapascal.
So to your questions:
1. Our 7,62 x 51 Sniper Ammo is in construction (structure) the same as our
cartridge 308 Winchester Match Ammo. They are only different technical
conditions (military and comercially). Sniper cartridges is for us
impossible sell commercially.
2. The performance of cartridges 308 Winchester and 7,62 x 51 is depending
only on the load. The performance is in both cases limited only with the
maximum pressure, which is in both cases practically the same, the values
are only measured with different methodes.
3. Cases of both cartridges 308 W and 7,62 x 51 are the same. Differ only
the headstamps.
The cone of the shoulder is in both cases the same - 40°.
So you can shoot our cartridges 308 W Match Ammo from the military sniper
rifle in the calibre 7,62 x 51.
I wish you with our cartridges the best shooting results.
Sincerely your
Hykel from Sellier&bellot